Buying Off Sitepoint Has Become So Boring!
Buying websites off sitepoint used to be a lot of fun. Rather like with eBay, it was the closest thing- adrenalin-wise, to gambling- that I know. As a former art dealer, one of the favorite part of my jobs was bidding at auctions. Swooping in at the last-minute for a piece of art that you desperately wanted, meanwhile poker-faced as if to say “ah well, I’m don’t really care about this one- it’s just an impulsive whim…“And while that sort of inter-personal energy isn’t the same online, it’s still a lot of fun bidding at online auctions- especially if it’s for something you desperately want. This is of course is the cornerstone of eBay’s success, and the element that cleverly backs this up is the feedback system for buyers and sellers.
While sitepoint has never had such a feedback system, it has always been a great place to buy and sell sites because of its inherent prestige and clout, i.e: if someone plays crooked, there will be consequences and the moderators are very professional. Also, every member was always “open” in that you could see his/her profile, how many posts they have made (& then read them)- and make contact at will.
These were the good old days! Auctions were completely free to list. The seller determined things like the BIN price, the length of sale and bidding format and, on the whole, everything was open and transparent. Private deals were possible, but everything was pretty much ‘out there’. In other words, the “spirit” of a true auction process was retained. If a seller declared the end time for an auction to be 17.00 EST on a specific date, then even if a higher bid came in at 17.01- the seller was ethically bound to sell to the bidder that was in time. So much ‘swooping’ last minute was possible! It was also possible to have open, honest discussions about the merits of that particular auction, with other members weighing in on the pros and cons and giving their advice- without being moderated out. And asking the hard, probing questions.
These days, all that has changed on sitepoint. I can see why the management at sitepoint wanted to shake things up from the rather chaotic, amateur process that was in place before. But in doing so, they have also managed to kill much of the charm and fun of bidding, as well as make it much harder to get a bargain. They have also made it harder to be 100% sure that you have won a site or to gain the useful advice and sometimes OTT battering of other members.
The first change that took some of the fun out was the over-zealous moderating. That members can only ask pertinent questions in regards to the sale if they are genuine buyers. They have drawn the line of “sabotage” too far- so that even fair, reasonable questions get moderated out. Rather like referees over-protecting goalies in footy!! The seller should be allowed to answer the difficult questions, while now, under current rules- they just whinge and duck them.
The second policy that has spoilt the fun is the separation of “established sites for sale” and “turnkeys”. Why? Because of the lack of definition in terms and the misunderstanding that most sellers and buyers have for what a turnkey actually is. So many buyers who would usually consider a “turnkey” won’t even visit that markeplace- thinking “I only want something established” and ditto sellers not listing there. While it makes sense in concept, in reality it has made for less excitement and fun.
The third policy that has really affected the process of buying & selling on sitepoint negatively- are the fees. From being free, they went to $4.95, then $9.95, then $14,95, then $19.95 and now just $20 (for “established sites”). What this means is that a lot of sellers who own, technically speaking, “established sites”, will be completely put off listing their $100 sites up for sale, as they’re losing 20% before starting! So for those who are looking for real “bargains” at that sort of level- hoping they can get such a site to be worth $1,000 with a bit of work- are denied the opportunity and their hearts just sink as they go through the many sites for sale for the $000s. And then with the ones who are still up at that price range- you nearly always find that they’re really not worth anything at all- which is why they don’t mind paing the fee and taking their shot.
And the fourth and last reason why sitepoint’s new rules have diminished the experience is the actual bidding/selling process. Firstly, some of the auctions can go on forever. When you see “time to go…27 days…”, you lose interest pretty quickly! Then, if you do wait until the last moment to bid- in the hope that you can get the site at the best possible price, and get the better of your bidding rivals (!), suddenly- if within 24 hours, the auction’s time period is extended for 4 hours more! What is more, because of the new “privacy” option- which nearly everyone seems to be using, one can’t see who one is bidding against- and therefore judge their patterns and see who are the cheapos and who are the real players. And you can only clock up “credits” (via posts) with “PM stats please…“
After all this is said and done, you have bid and won the auction. Or so you think…another irritating last hurdle to jump through. “A winning bid has been made (or BIN)...but the seller has not yet accepted or declined the offer…so you can make an offer…”.
Aargh So after all that, I don’t even know if I won the site or not??
Seemingly, these latter policies are in line to help the seller achieve the best price possible. The question is if it does, in reality, achieve that. In my next post, I’ll be giving three recent examples of our own experiences on sitepoint- as evidence that not only has sitepoint become a boring place to buy sites from, but that it also doesn’t work in practice as it should.
You can see sitepoint’s new “auction guidelines” here.
[tags]sitepoint,buying sites,auction, online auctions,turnkeys,privacy,blog sales[/tags]
Thanks for the feedback—I look forward to reading your next few posts about specific experiences you’ve had.
A few clarifications:
1. The popcorn bidding only extends auctions by 4 hours, not 24 hours as stated.
Before this feature was implemented, many sellers continued to accept bids and offers even after the auction was officially over, which rightly angered many bidders.
This feature is intended to level the playing field and give EVERYONE an equal and fair chance to bid – and it prevents bidders from loosing a purchase because of late-comers.
2. Auctions are currently self-moderated by the sellers. We intend to put in place strong guidelines to discourage legitimate questions from being deleted—the feature is really only intended to remove spam, defamatory posts or personal attacks.
3. The “enable private bids” option was created to prevent bidding via email/PMs which was a huge recurring problem. Lest assured, that both the seller and all moderators & admins can see all bids.
The result is that sellers cannot create “phantom bids” that legitimate buyers then have to compete against.
4. Regarding backup offers even when a BIN has been made – this feature exists to prevent auctions being closed by false-bidders.
We’ve had several instances where someone purposefully went around making BIN bids just to close auctions, with no intention of following through.
With the current system, the seller is in control—they can choose to accept or reject any bid. We encourage them to continue accepting offers up to the point until they get paid to avoid having an auction go bad because a buyer got cold feet.
Matt Mickiewicz said this on November 23, 2006 8:14 am
Matt- I greatly appreciate you taking the time to respond and clarify some points.
Firstly, forgive me for that typo re: the ‘popcorn bidding’- now corrected to 4 hours. I would argue that this is “over management” on your part, though- as if a seller does not stick to his/her own set of guidelines, then their reputation on the forum will be known accordingly. This is part of the fun of being in a community- getting to know the other members, who sticks to their word and who doesn’t. With everything being hidden, this is no longer possible. Also, it greatly favors the seller (i.e: if you arrive late to bid after the hammer goes down at Sothebys- tant pis!).
On your second point, the intention is good- but the effect has been that the tough questions are no longer being asked. I know it must be nigh impossible for you to draw the line- my point is that the line has been drawn too far in favor of the seller.
3. It’s comforting to know that you can still oversee privacy bids. It’s again a good idea in principle- but it hasn’t, in my experience, had the desired effect- as I will demonstrate.
4. I get this completely- but what it is in fact creating is a continued, hidden auction behind the scenes where nobody is any longer accountable.
My overall point is that these new rules, in pursuit of greater “fairness”, has taken the fun out of it. But once again, I am grateful for your clarifications.
First sample coming up….
Mosey said this on November 23, 2006 10:32 pm